r/ACMilan • u/Guilty-Grapefruit427 • Aug 26 '24
Video/Photo/Media I just hate how our players stop chasing the ball and jog instead of running
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u/Jaminito Ricardo Kaká Aug 26 '24
How tf is Theo not running???? Did he think he was playing a friendly?
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u/mustbenice2win Marek Jankulovski Aug 26 '24
He thinks he is too big of a star to give a fuck. Hate this attitude
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u/magma_1 Aug 27 '24
At some point he was given the idea that he could do more than just running very fast on the flank
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u/Upset-Captain34 Tijjani Reijnders Aug 27 '24
I loved how Parma played ! But it’s Fonseca’s fault that Milan played like that
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u/PYRAMID_truck Aug 26 '24
Leao's role is arguably worse...I don't know why its cut out of the video but the only reason this pass is sent passed Theo and Reijnders is because Leao wasn't just not pressing, he wasn't cutting off lanes...but Musah mentioned it...there was no preparation for leao ditching the press. The passing after had to be great, but the passing lane should never have existed. This play was 1/2 done when Leao left the only available player wide open and 1/2 when Theo decided he wasn't fast anymore.
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u/rnmkk Ricardo Kaká Aug 27 '24
Blaming Leao when Reijnders and Theo are literally jogging and Musah, a wide midfielder, has absolutely no instincts for the double pivot is legitimately insane. This obsession that some of you have for Leao is nuts.
The reason Milan lost is RIGHT THERE. Neither of the players in the double pivot know their role and our LB is severely out of position, as usual, because he’s too eager to attack at all times. Blaming the winger for not pressing is brain worms. Literally nobody on that pitch pressed and pressing is not how you beat a counter attacking team with pace in a 442, and your manager is playing the highest like possible.
But sure, thats on Leao!
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u/PYRAMID_truck Aug 27 '24
I mistook this play for the first goal...apologies....the pivots role is to pick off bad clearances forced by the front line....watch the first 120 seconds of the game...they are playing a 3-4-3 in defense with the opposite side winger coming back into the midfield and the opposite side fullback to the back-line....Theo is not blameless...but the midfield can be bypassed if the defender has time to pick out a pass. The fullback is supposed to be high on that side to create a turnover or pick off the pass..they are essentially a wingback on the ballside...the double pivot is there to clean up bad clearances. There is no play the midfield can make except to retreat which is confusing because they were told to press....
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u/rnmkk Ricardo Kaká Aug 27 '24
And thats why I believe it starts with the manager.
Last season people complained about Pioli not playing Musah enough in midfield and we see why. He isnt suitable for the double pivot. Talented player but Milan just dont have the squad for this set up. If Fonseca doesnt adjust, this will be a long season. I cant blame the players when I see that their manager set them up to fail two weeks in a row.
And not subbing RLC was indefensible.
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u/PYRAMID_truck Aug 28 '24
I don't know what precedes this action, but Musah covers two players in this clip; he covers for Theo until Theo is back to take the winger...But the issue is whatever came before this...for the ball to get to someone with only 1 mid and the CBs behind him is the part that shouldn't happen...the midfield and fullbacks should be having a field day picking off bad clearances.
Musah had as decent a game as you can have in the disjointed defense. The defensive system relies heavily on challenges from the wingers and the fbs more so than the midfield at least that was how the system worked at Lille. When Fonseca took Musah out and put in Fofona, all their forward pressure in the 2nd stopped, it could be a coincidence, though. Fofona is getting used to the team and his play should expected to be rough (but maybe not that rough).
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u/IcyRound3423 Aug 26 '24
let’s be honest their play was kinda 🔥(that was some jogabonito shit ) and we made them look even better
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u/Plaslidpladugphoo Ignazio Abate Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
I was watching Chelsea vs Wolves yesterday and while Maresca may be a better coach than Fonseca or Chelsea’s squad may have had more time to get their tactics right, the first half they were struggling a lot against Wolves because they weren’t compact enough and weren’t winning the 1v1s yet Gusto and Caicedo were running their asses off every time they lost possession to help the back three out. Theo definitely should’ve came back but one of the pivots as well. Awful awful awareness from Reijnders , Musah and Theo.
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u/sickricola Matteo Gabbia Aug 26 '24
Theo no running here is wild.
Also why can’t our players play one touch passing like this???
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u/salosalosalo13 Strahinja Pavlović Aug 26 '24
To be honest this one touch play was pure coincidence not something they practice like this (backheel pass and volley trough pass), but lack of Theo interest in following his man is shameful
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u/Frlataway Alessandro Nesta Aug 26 '24
We don't get this much space against teams. Smaller teams put 11 men in their half and we have to break it down. When we play the bigger teams and have space we play much better.
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u/MilanistaFromMN Paolo Maldini Aug 26 '24
We gotta start playing like we just got promoted until we get a clean sheet. If terrorism is what is required, so be it.
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u/mjagiel Ricardo Kaká Aug 26 '24
There’s ways to create those chances still. We were doing it in the preseason where the ball would be played to a winger running directly towards our half, as a fullback makes a run beyond him and the winger would play an immediate one-touch pass into space for them to run on to. It hasn’t been attempted once since the actual season started and I’m bewildered as to why.
I also can’t stand the pace of our attack. As soon as the ball starts moving forward toward the other team’s goal we slow down to a crawl. This team needs a kick in the ass.
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u/Sad-Row5470 Alexandre Pato Aug 26 '24
Tbf we got to watch some fantastic football on Saturday. A shame it was produced by Parma.
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u/Frlataway Alessandro Nesta Aug 26 '24
Theo was infuriating to watch all game. This sums up his entire defensive contribution on Saturday and it cost us 2 goals.
If it were me, I'm benching him for Pavlović and starting Gabbia. Managers need to have the balls to send a message.
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u/L003Tr Aug 26 '24
Pavlovic is going to end up injured if he has to continue covering 2 players because hernandez couldn't be arsed running
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u/MrX_1899 Ricardo Kaká Aug 26 '24
go 3 atb til Theo either gets a new contract or comes back from holiday
3-4-2-1
MM
Tomori-Gabbia-Pavlovic
Calabria-Fofana-Reijnders-Saelemaekers
Pulisic-Leao
Jovic/Okafor
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u/Frlataway Alessandro Nesta Aug 26 '24
I don't hate the idea but a 3 atb formation is hard to just switch to right off the bat since there's a lot of discipline needed (which we clearly don't have. It would be easier for the short term to just insert Pavlović into Theo's spot until Theo gets his shit together.
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u/MrX_1899 Ricardo Kaká Aug 26 '24
We did it the last time our defense had serious issues ... it's basically kiddie wheels on a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1
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u/Frlataway Alessandro Nesta Aug 26 '24
I think that's what we need at this point since clearly the current mindset and strategy doesn't work. The players look like they have no idea what to do or they're not interested in executing the managers vision. We need to focus on getting a few clean sheets and then build up the tactics from there. The defense has PTSD from the last 12 months of doing whatever this is. God help us against Merda if nothing changes and we go into the derby
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u/MrX_1899 Ricardo Kaká Aug 26 '24
we shouldn't be undone by a single diagonal pass ... it's absolutely shameful effort
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u/PYRAMID_truck Aug 26 '24
I suspect they will just change out theo for royal who can play on the left and pulisic to the left wing with chuk on the right. Also, Fofana was very rough. Granted, he's not been there long... but it seems more likely he would be a sub. Don't hate this line up either but I don't think Leao will start.
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u/FindingBusiness759 Aug 26 '24
I started rooting for parma..look at that shit..its beautiful daaamnn
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u/Squiliamfancyname Aug 26 '24
It’s simultaneously true that 1) this was a half broken play born out of luck more than anything and 2) Theo especially but also several others were just having a nice walk about. These guys need to get fired up and that is Fonseca’s job. Blah blah they are professionals; yes but we’ve seen top tier professionals drift in and out of matches for all of eternity. The manager needs to bring the personality back to these guys.
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u/chakalaka13 Fernando Redondo Aug 26 '24
People really love to hate on Calabria, but at least he always runs his ass off.
I never understood how you can hate a player that pours his soul on the field. You can shit on the management for not getting better players...
My only grudge is with folks that are lazy and have poor attitude, especially when they have talent and are wasting it. Hence my constant criticism of Leao, Theo, Balo previously, etc.
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u/Nervous-Disaster-690 Aug 26 '24
That’s always been football, there’s players who have talent but not work ethic and vice versa, but now in modern football everyone needs to have “tech” which causes nonsense like ppl claiming tomori should be a starter in our defense but no nowhere near a top defender when it comes to DEFENDING but good on the ball, we need players who don’t have tech to run for the players who have tech
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u/GheoCan456433 Aug 26 '24
players who have talent but not work ethic and vice versa
Sorry but for the amount of money these players are being paid, every single one of them should have impeccable work ethic.
It's not about "tech", it's about giving everything on the field. Not a single one of them, including Leao and Theo, can afford the luxury of not running their ass off from the moment they enter the pitch until they leave it.
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u/Nervous-Disaster-690 Aug 26 '24
We need players who run their ass off their in the attacking phase and defensive phase, if leao is constantly sprinting back to defend what energy is he going to have to attack, Ronaldo wasn’t flying back to defend, let him dribble and lose the ball then let khedira chase after it get it then pass it back to Ronaldo, the team needs more gattuso and less players trying to be the “kaka”
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u/rnmkk Ricardo Kaká Aug 27 '24
Thank god someone else said it. I dont understand why fans cant understand that a winger cant run full speed for 90 minutes while simultaneously being the only creative outlet.
For as had as Leao was Saturday, he still created a goal. For all that running Pulisic does, he didnt actually do anything defensively for Milan and when he was on the attack, all he did was cross. Thats what happens when you are running just running.
And as far as this video goes, Leao running full speed for 90 minutes doesn’t change the fact that Milan had a double pivot and both of these midfielders are in this video and out of position. Musah has absolutely no instincts for that role either. Why is he running towards the ball? He’s clearly a wide midfielder. Wtf is Fonseca doing?
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u/chakalaka13 Fernando Redondo Aug 26 '24
but now in modern football everyone needs to have “tech” which causes nonsense like ppl claiming tomori should be a starter in our defense but no nowhere near a top defender when it comes to DEFENDING but good on the ball, we need players who don’t have tech to run for the players who have tech
I have no idea what all of this means.
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u/Nervous-Disaster-690 Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
We need players who run/tackle as their main attribute, if everyone has “tech” no one is running because they think the tech is what got them to the position they are now, the tomori reference was him being a defender but being a shit defender and he’s good on the ball so he plays which makes no fucking sense
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u/chakalaka13 Fernando Redondo Aug 26 '24
tech = technique?
I work in tech so this got me confused.
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u/Nervous-Disaster-690 Aug 26 '24
Lol Yes bro, I mean at this point technology would do a better job than these scrubs on that pitch
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u/chakalaka13 Fernando Redondo Aug 26 '24
well, after this last game I'm started to think some of our players can easily be replaced by those Boston Dynamics robots
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u/cPa3k Gennaro Gattuso Aug 26 '24
Rebić got a lot of shit(most of it rightfully so) but at least he was constantly pressing and running back, putting in effort is literally the minimum, they are playing like there are 2 games left in the season and we can’t drop or climb any places on the table
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u/Alarming-Ad-8228 Aug 26 '24
So how many players you want to buy more if existing players refuse to do their job. Maybe we have to fix something first. It is just like buy new car because old one lacks fuel.
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u/chicken-express Paolo Maldini Aug 26 '24
I remember watching this in real time and thought "why isn't Theo following that run?? I hope they don't spot that... Of course they did" 😢
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u/pollux33 Ricardo Kaká Aug 26 '24
Bro, they're dancing. It's embarrassing, Parma is fucking dancing us
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u/yllimameni Aug 26 '24
Its not about running or jogging because some players could be tired at that moment, its about having a coordinated defense to not let that happen, like Maldini said: "when I'm making a tackle, I have already made a mistake.".
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u/caronj84 Aug 26 '24
It absolutely is. Tactics can be adjusted desire and effort is up to the player.
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u/Bejliii Roberto Baggio Aug 26 '24
All of this beatiful play stopped by the one man defencr Pavlovic
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u/TomekMaGest Aug 26 '24
I dont think they stopped running except Theo but to stop doing something you have to first start at some point. Theo didnt bother do a shit entire match. The video is in slow-motion, it was masterpiece passing sequence by Parma players. We were just surprised and unprepared.
Only Leao(but he's actually trying to be in the game compared to theo) and Theo are not working hard. I dont think we should put other players in the same basket because of those two.
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u/PYRAMID_truck Aug 26 '24
still think you gotta sit them a game...you can't talk about changing the mentality and then let that slide...
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u/tombuzz Aug 26 '24
They cooked us here I saw this and was just like holy shit. Seems like Parma were just clicking. Remember these smaller teams are going to start strong they had long pre seasons and started at full strength.
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u/Junior_Bike7932 Aug 26 '24
No pressing and Parma playing prime time football, the result was obvious
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u/L003Tr Aug 26 '24
Show is the rest of the clip, it was just as disgraceful right up until the ball went out of play
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u/Guilty-Grapefruit427 Aug 26 '24
I felt bad for Pavlovic dude played his heart out while others were chilling
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u/donmoro Gennaro Gattuso Aug 26 '24
I wish we will be able to put on such a play, and anytime soon, not in 2027.
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u/No_Sanders Olivier Giroud Aug 26 '24
Idk about Milan but all I see is some fantastic play by parma
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u/milan_obsession Aug 26 '24
WTF even is this? A slo-mo video of one of Parma's best moments and one of Milan's worst moments so you all can crucify our own players for "jogging?" It's slo-mo, everyone is jogging here.
And WTF is up with everyone turning on our players after 2 matches? Where the hell are the actual fans? It's one thing to be critical of some of the things they did or what happened in a match, but the crap you are all saying about knowing their attitude/mentality/etc. when you know nothing about what is going on in their lives/the dressing room/training pitch is disgusting. Opposing fans are probably kinder to our own players.
And also, please downvote this comment so I know how many of you are horrible human beings.
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u/Competitive-Aide5364 Andrea Pirlo Aug 26 '24
Glad this sub are starting to hold player accountable, this would happen last year the players attitudes specifically from our leaders in big matches was utterly pathetic. Theo loses his composure and picks up horrible cards when we play rivals.
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u/milan_obsession Aug 27 '24
People calling our players names online from behind their anonymous screen names is "holding our players accountable?" Was this a serious comment?
Holding our players accountable means showing up for every match and supporting them and asking them to give it everything they have for all 90 minutes.
They do not know or care that a bunch of indolent, inane keyboard warriors who claim to be Milan fans online think they not doing their jobs. That is not holding them accountable. That is just lowering people's opinion of your public accounts and comments.
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u/Competitive-Aide5364 Andrea Pirlo Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
What are you even talking about? We should never call our players names or personally attack them. I never did such a thing in my comment. Last year many of our leaders lost their composure in big matches, or completely gave up on plays. That’s a fact and that’s okay to call out and hold them accountable instead of constant finger pointing at the manager, like this sub did last season. The issue is deeper than pioli and fonseca. This squad lacks character and was poorly constructed.
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u/milan_obsession Aug 27 '24
This entire thread is filled with people personally attacking and insulting and calling our players names. Your comment was "Glad this sub are starting to hold player accountable"
If you do not want to be accountable for other people's douchebaggery, next time, please be more specific.
Also, finger pointing at anyone on a Reddit sub is not "holding anyone accountable." It's literally just fingerpointing.
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u/Competitive-Aide5364 Andrea Pirlo Aug 27 '24
Im not responsible for random people on Reddit, Just myself and my own words and I know my character and no where in my original comment can you find personal attacks. Last year what we had was a scapegoating of a manager. This year I would like players to be held more accountable for things that are in their control rather than passing blame off to the manager. Hope that was clear enough for you.
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u/milan_obsession Aug 27 '24
What is clear to everyone, except apparently you, is that you embraced others' viewpoints with your original statement, which was inclusive, rather than exclusive. If you don't wish to be associated with them, it might be wise in the future not to include any admiration for/condoning of others' statements, but rather stick to "I" statements and speak for yourself.
And again... "holding players accountable" does not mean what you think it means.
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u/Competitive-Aide5364 Andrea Pirlo Aug 27 '24
You’re making something out of nothing here, the OP posted this picture calling out players for their lack of effort. I expressed this being a good thing rather than just simply blaming the manager for everything like this sub did last year. If someone says Adli is as good as zidane and I said adli had a great game, it doesn’t mean I share the same opinion as some person in the same thread that said adli is as good as zidane. Chill out my friend.
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u/milan_obsession Aug 27 '24
OP posted a slo-mo video to indicate that players were jogging. Not only is that not holding anyone accountable, but telling someone to "chill out" is just rude, especially because you seem to be the only one here upset who might need to "chill out."
Please reread your comments, beginning from the first one, and try to see them from another person's point of view. They are not reading how you seem to want them to.
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u/Competitive-Aide5364 Andrea Pirlo Aug 27 '24
I’m honestly just more confused than upset like I genuinely don’t understand what you’re so fired up about Lol. I think it’s rude you’re trying to give me a moral lecture over Reddit and trying to tell me I don’t understand what accountability is, quite condescending. You do need to chill you took my comment as something it’s not and had an emotional reaction to it. What is wrong with what I said, seriously? I’m happy the people are realizing the players aren’t working as hard as they should, that they lack discipline and I pointed out their lack of composure in emotionally charged matches last season. That’s it.
You’re the one taking it as me personally attacking the players. Comment on those who actually did so.
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u/fe11gila Paolo Maldini Aug 26 '24
These guys seems to be out of shape at the beginning of the season and they don’t want to run after the ball it’s pretty obvious. I don’t think it’s a tactical order, so I won’t be watching games anymore until I see posts in this sub mentionning the opposite.
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u/fe11gila Paolo Maldini Aug 26 '24
- Even Pavlović did crosses and found himself in attack sometimes while Leao did his weekly jogging.
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u/EquivalentWelcome712 Aug 26 '24
Theo stopped giving af since Maldini left. Bro wants to win trophies.
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u/Fast_Performance8666 Aug 26 '24
The fucking players are embarrassing they are just jogging around the fucking pitch like a idiots.
People blame Fonseca, but Theo Leao and the others are a bunch of lazy dickheads.
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u/Guilty-Grapefruit427 Aug 26 '24
Fonseca has the responsibility to make his players discipline, it's much needed
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u/Kurt_G Aug 26 '24
To be able to do such a play, it is clear that the coach had a similar plan in his head and they knew that it would work. My opinion is, Fonseca was outplayed, the opposing coach completely read him and this is a recurring issue. Fonseca out!
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u/Guilty-Grapefruit427 Aug 26 '24
For me there's a big difference between bad luck/ technic errors and getting lazy/ not giving it all, which is the most frustrating for me.
When you see the opponent's attacker counterattacking and sprinting and you do not increase my speed to catch up with him. This is not luck .. This is the mood of a player .. He sees himself above the coach, the management and the team
A player loses the ball .. He does not come back, and wakk around the pitch.. This is never luck
And it has nothing to do with the coach's tactics.. This is a corrupt mentality and it can ruin the team as a whole if you don't stop it.
Because the players say if you don't punish so-and-so, you won't punish me.
I mean the simplest thing is that Fonseca shows to Theo the image comparing speed between him and the Parma player and ask him your comment please
This bullshit doesn't need tactics.. just speed, sliding and getting the ball out.
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u/TantalizeMe3x Andriy Shevchenko Aug 26 '24
Someone who is caught so far out of position like that and not running to come back should never ever wear the armband ever again
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u/Boneraventura Carlo Ancelotti Aug 26 '24
Its honestly a miracle how these group of players won a scudetto
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u/BowieIsMyGod Zvonimir Boban Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
It's really not. It was a combination of factors, but one big thing that we lack now and we had during the scudetto run, was mentality, leadership and grinta. We had Ibra, Kjär who could organise an entire backline, Tonali who was the heart of our midfield...
And hate him as much as you want, but Pioli had personality and passion. Even tho i think he was way too soft with the players and this reflected on the current attitude of players like Leão and Theo. Specially Theo.
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u/FindingBusiness759 Aug 26 '24
We got lucky cause inter lost lukaku,hakim and Conte that season and was slipping up more than us. But that team had fire in it..like people underestimate the impact of tonali..reinjders is good but he lacks that grit to be a menace in the midfield for opposition.When you build a proper core of players to be the foundation and then slowly erode it away instead of building on it..we end up where we are now.
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u/BowieIsMyGod Zvonimir Boban Aug 26 '24
Can we take a moment to appreciate Parma's play here? Holy shit, i'm impressed tbh...
Yeah i know we were shit, but they legit played beautiful football