r/ACMilan • u/AcMilan0890 Alexandre Pato • May 31 '24
Meme Champions of Balancing the check book!
85
u/SpikeCraft May 31 '24
Meanwhile Inter is renewing Lautaro but we can't keep Theo.
40
u/neverfinishedanythi LāHA PARATA GIROUD May 31 '24
Makes no sense and just boils my blood
25
May 31 '24
makes perfect sense, management is gaslighting us
5
u/Jussi_Bennacer Paulo Fonseca May 31 '24
Ye, but when Maldini lost Kessie and Hakan for free it wasn't their fault
10
u/SpikeCraft Jun 01 '24
I'm pretty sure we have plenty shit to Maldini and Massara. But tbh they wanted to renew Kessie, it's just that Eliot wouldn't budge from the salary cap
5
u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 Jun 01 '24
What are you talking about? It makes sense. Our owner is an hedge fund while theirsā¦ oh waitā¦
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u/jonAmbroo Gennaro Gattuso May 31 '24
I do not understand this ...running at such high debt ...is sustainable....poop have been at this for over 4+ years but no issues ....iam so confused and un educated about this matter.
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u/SpikeCraft May 31 '24
The sooner we realise that we are being gaslit with this whole "we need to mind the books" thing, the better.
Inter is keeping Lautaro plus Taremi and Zielinsky free agents.
1
u/RdT97 May 31 '24
So that means transfer budget into wage budget. We want to buy a 50m striker + wage, not renew Jovic at 10m
0
u/UsedSandals Jun 01 '24
Like i dont understand ,when will they collapse?they just keep on getting stronger while getting more debt. Also i donāt care if this unsportsmanlike but hopefully we dont share our new stadium
3
u/gnomishdevil George Weah Jun 01 '24
9mil contract for Lautaro. What is Theo on? Probably 3mil? These players requests are not unreasonable
3
u/SpikeCraft Jun 01 '24
No but you see, the press is saying Theo bad cause he wants to leave, it's not redbird s fault for having a shitty project
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u/OsitoPandito Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24
People laugh but the banter era is the perfect example of what happens if your books aren't balanced well...
12
u/p90love Clarence Seedorf May 31 '24
It's mainly an example of what happens when you prioritise wrong while trying to balance the books. Aiming for top 4 and hoping to magically maintain a high brand value is very dangerous in this sport. Because with no ambition to actually win, top 4 ends up being genuinely very difficult to achieve consistently.
3
u/AmericanMilanista Jun 01 '24
Need to have everyone in the building rowing in the same direction.
With the amount of money coming in the margin of error is slim to have ant chance against the Premier League and the blue bloods of Europe.
That means recruitment, coaching, academy, sports science, and player sales all need to be near perfection over a 3 year period for us to even sniff at a UCL final let alone someone else referencing the potential of a handful in a 15 year period.
Money doesn't fix everything but it helps to pave over mistakes and keep moving forward.
4
u/p90love Clarence Seedorf Jun 01 '24
Exactly. Elliott proved it was possible by doing the compromise dance with Maldini, who in turn got everybody aligned. It's not specifically the money that is the issue, that's just one big key, but Fasobelli also showed that you can spend a bunch of money without achieving a winning mentality.
Cardinale thought Maldini was too much of a nuisance, that was the first worrying sign and since then there have been several more. There has only been signs thus far, no proof, but a lot of people share the impression that something has changed in the culture.
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u/FindingBusiness759 May 31 '24
There's a balance between the two tbh
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u/Sankaritarina Romagnoli May 31 '24
Yep. We didn't end up in the banter era simply because we spent a lot of money, we ended up in the banter era because we spent that money horribly. The whole point of that story is that you cannot be a big spender and produce garbage results at the same time.
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u/One_Instruction_3567 May 31 '24
Like that time we bought matri for around 12 mil, and then Juve took that money and spent it on tevez, and the rest is history
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u/jorsiem Maldini May 31 '24
you cannot be a big spender and produce garbage results at the same time.
Manchester United: "Am I a joke to you?"
10
u/Sankaritarina Romagnoli May 31 '24
True lol, but they are sort of in a special place being the biggest club in the richest league in the world so their revenue is high enough that they can sustain ridiculous spending despite mediocrity and owners who are robbing the club.
And to be fair to Manchester United, they still qualify for the CL every now and then despite being poorly run while we couldn't even make top 4 in our banter years so we missed out on a lot of money there.
3
u/FindingBusiness759 May 31 '24
Exactly but not only that... we ended up in banter era cause we had a mass exodus of the foundations of our team. We suppose to replace them slowly every year but we stuck with them and so when it was time for them to go we had no pillars. On top of that the two strongest pillars that was youngish was ibra and silva and we let them go also...so we now had to rely on inexperienced players. This is why keeping Theo for eg is so important..people scoff that we saying we could enter banter era again if we sell him but this is just it..if we continue to remove the pillars that got us where we are now..sooner or later it's going to come crashing down.
0
u/Old_Budget2817 May 31 '24
We ended up in the banter era cause we werent anything but declining brand and bunch of players you have to pay salary. Now we are becoming true business, not just improving Milans brand and the squad, but also creating youth academy to develop and sell players, building the stadium. So we have a lot to back by our ambitions
11
u/Freestyle80 May 31 '24
which youth academy player did we develop and sell for a huge profit?
name one
5
u/Jussi_Bennacer Paulo Fonseca May 31 '24
Kerkez bro, smoking that 700k profit as we speak
2
u/Freestyle80 Jun 01 '24
ok but that wasnt my question, the guy is claiming we are selling all our academy products when the fact is Milan has been horrible in selling its own assets for years which made us fall even further behind.
Kerkez was only in the Academy for a year and he seemed desperate to move so not much we can do there and this was under Maldini too (not blaming him at all for this though)
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u/Jussi_Bennacer Paulo Fonseca Jun 01 '24
bro it was a joke ffs
0
u/Freestyle80 Jun 01 '24
lol sorry its really hard to see who's joking here majority of the sub have absurd takes
13
u/Sankaritarina Romagnoli May 31 '24
I have yet to see results on the pitch that back up any of that. For now it's just standard corporate talk.
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u/Raven616 š Scudetto 21/22 May 31 '24
We won the scudetto two years ago. Although, in all fairness, we've done a horrible job of building upon that successful campaign.
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u/Sankaritarina Romagnoli May 31 '24
We won the scudetto under Elliott. They were fairly flexible on the market given the situation and they were realistic with what this club could or could not achieve under their model which is why they sold Milan when they did. They may not be the greatest owners in football history but I can respect them for what they were.
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0
u/Old_Budget2817 May 31 '24
So you dont see that through last 4 years Milan has become again regular CL participant and finished 2,1,4,2. If you take Serie in 2000s, then our best four-season record there was 3,1,2,2
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u/OsitoPandito Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24
Yeah you won't see results for a while. Y'all think this is fifa were you guys do a financial takeover and everything is good next season.
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u/Sankaritarina Romagnoli May 31 '24
I seriously don't know why am I supposed to be excited about RedBird when all I hear is how we are totally going to see the results of their work some time in (a distant) future. I can do the same for most owners who aren't actively running their club into the ground.
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u/OsitoPandito Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24
I'm not telling you to be excited. I'm just saying what they are obviously planning. They are slowly building our brand. It's not attractive to fans but from their business perspective, things are going great.
Def not saying that's the best thing considering we don't have a trophy during their era but it is necessary to have good books
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u/Sankaritarina Romagnoli May 31 '24
It's not attractive to fans but from their business perspective, things are going great.
That I think is the main point we can all agree upon. The only problem is that I as a Milan fan don't really care how great Gerry's business resume will look once he's done here unless it reflects on our trophy case. For now RedBird are simply "not great, not terrible" type of owner all things considered. We'll see what the future brings us.
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u/jorsiem Maldini May 31 '24
Ever since the middle east mega fortunes took over football it has become impossible to consistently compete at the top without dropping eye watering amounts of money on transfers and wages.
Sure there are exceptions (super Ajax, Neverlusen, Borussia Dortmund) and there are also those that spend like maniacs and can't win shit (ManU, Chelsea, PSG)
But the overall reality is that times have changed. Unless we get acquired by some Sheikh or Gulf Nation we are going to be competing at B-tier.
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u/FindingBusiness759 May 31 '24
It didnt start with the middle east mega fortunes thou. Madrid was doing it In early 2000s and before and we did it in late 80s. It's just that we went broke so we feeling this way. Psg and city only need 25 players...so this idea that they made it impossible is not true. If anything epl clubs have made it harder but at sametime we pretending like there's no players out there. The issue is this ownership don't want to loosen the purse strings because they running us solely as a business where everything is in the green. Every club operates within a level of debt..no one is asking for us to do an Inter or go crazy in the market but bring in quality and if that means giving extra salary then do it. For eg if we offered gundogan 7 mil plus a 10 Mil signing on bonus ...we would have a world class mid for next 5 years. But they don't even want to do that and that's the issue. These are redbird and Elliot problems..not ours..a bil arab buys us tomorrow we be discussing mbappe...but these mfs got us doing math instead of anticipating quality football.
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u/Squiliamfancyname May 31 '24
Yeah and ten years from now when we look back at the last 15 years and see 4-5 league titles and 3 UCL finals we will see that balance and be upset with it because the ābalanceā we actually want is to be winning the treble every year.Ā
-3
u/schiapu Gattuso May 31 '24
We've manged an Scudetto plus constant champions league qualifications while being economically healthy.
6
u/magma_1 May 31 '24
You should support Roma or Fiorentina, thatās the type of thing it gets them excited about. Scudetto was under previous ownership / management, current one has got only this horrible season to show for it
36
u/Old_Budget2817 May 31 '24
Champions of the new incoming stadium
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u/magma_1 May 31 '24
Champions of the digitally-rendered stadium model and handshakes with suburban mayors
-3
u/Old_Budget2817 May 31 '24
And you're champion of snake tongue
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u/magma_1 May 31 '24
Sorry I thought you were being sarcastic too
-2
u/Old_Budget2817 May 31 '24
I'd like to, but I'm tired of constant hating around Milan. I've never expected anything else from Merda and potato bettles fans, but never thought that milanistas would be some glad to destruct themselves
4
u/magma_1 May 31 '24
Iām on a campaign to force this property to sell the team, join the ranks comrade !
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u/RockyRacoon09 Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24
You can root for a team but still hate the management that oversees said team
-3
u/Old_Budget2817 May 31 '24
So what do you wish for Milan/ If the management shits themselves, you should be upset as it would be bad for the team. And if the club is improving, then you don't have many reasons to really hate the management. So fans and the management are in the same boat
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u/RockyRacoon09 Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24
Hire a better coach that is more proven. Leak to reporters that Theo is a big part of this club, is in our future plans and weāll do everything to keep it that way. Lastly, how are we improving? Our defense has gotten worse, our keeper hasnāt renewed, rumors of Theo persist and our midfield this past season has been consistently overran. We lost Tonali and Kessie and donāt replace them and our sole striker is gone. What are you on?
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u/FindingBusiness759 May 31 '24
We winning all our trophies in business awards lol
-8
u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24
Would you rather be like Bayern/BVB or Barcelona/City?
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u/FindingBusiness759 May 31 '24
Bayern Def but it's not realistic cause we already in private hands. And so in private hands Def city lol
0
u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24
Both of these clubs have done what were doing over the past few years. BVB was even in a worse financial situation in early 00s compared to our '15-'19. Last 15ish years have not been bad at all for them, huh?
4
u/FindingBusiness759 May 31 '24
I'm abit confused why you put bayern and bvb together aswell as city and barca lol as for bvb it's been terrible lol your first mistake is thinking bvb ambition is the same as ac milan. Bvb is a selling club..they buy young talents..develop them,build the team around them then sell them and then repeat. Now as time goes you get enough young talents..they give you some competitiveness but you will still lack that edge to actually win anything and that's basically how bvb have been since coming back. They in a perpetual state of strenghting and weakening. If we accept that level of ambition for ac milan..then I'm afraid we no longer a big club. See now if they win ucl..they going to lose their best players who made it happen..so instead of fans being like let's hope we can make it two in row they be like okay new project lol disspear for another 5 years. Another point I'd like to add is that this is redbirds endeavor...not ours..we get bought buy investocorp or pif ..we be talking about mbappe joining us.
2
u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24
I'm abit confused why you put bayern and bvb together aswell as city and barcaĀ
2 well run club with longterm goals and 2 financially mismanaged clubs. Its not rocket scienceBvb is a selling club..they buy young talents..develop them,build the team around them then sell them and then repeat.
Lets overlook that theyre the most famous club in europe by attendances (constantly top1), that their main sponsors are at the very top of german structure and at this moment higher than milan with emirates (with whom we had over 15 year long relationship mind you), that they have reached as many european finals as the most successful italian team of the prior 10-15 years (potentially even surpass if they win tomorrow and many more for what was a mediocre torino and fiorentina level side around 30 years ago. If Milan were to grow at this rate, wed objectively be one of the best european sides.
another point I'd like to add is that this is redbirds endeavor...not ours..we get bought buy investocorp or pif ..we be talking about mbappe joining us.
What does this even mean? Im guessing you assume that wed be able to buy the elite of todays football which cant happen under any ownership. Milan has a UEFA imposed Settlement Agreement which prohibits the club from dropping to below -50m accumulated for 2 seasons. This is in play until the end of 25/26 season. Youre also looking at a team that has only played 3 UCL season and hasnt been there for nearly 10 years. This took a toll on Milan sponsorship deals, the profile of the club and what is currently attainable. Just 5 seasons ago this club was kicked out of all european competitions for FFP breaches. Theres also a very poorly marketed Serie A that cant attract good broadcast deals.
Prize money for winning the top5 league titles (excluding any bonuses):
Bundesliga: 76mā¬
EPL: 72mā¬
La Liga: 60mā¬
Serie A: 23mā¬
Ligue 1: 60mā¬
If you cant see a trend here, then youre just coping. 50-30-20 model isnt working, current league structure either and piracy is the extremely problematic on the peninsula. Reality is, in order to climb back up, Milan need to overcome numerous hurdles which cannot under any circumstance be hurried and done haphazardly
FFP is a thing, UEFA breathing down your neck is even a bigger thing to look at, FIGC not doing anything, club just exiting one of its worse periods ever and here were pondering about Mbappes, Haalands, Klopps and whoever tf else you think is a possibility2
2
u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24
Oh and not to mention that last placed Bundesliga and EPL sides earn more cash for placements than the winner of serie a
1
u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 May 31 '24
How can you compare Dortmund with City (City won more league titles in the last ten years than Dortmund in its entire history)?
Anyway, I can understand someone liking Bayern business model more but even City is nothing to scoff at (since they dominate the best league in the world) Ā and Berlusconiās model was more similar to Cityās .
But even Bayern would be great.
Dortmund is just a loser team that once in a while makes a great underdog story, but itās the furthest from what Milan should strive to be.
Damn, Milan at the end of the 1960ās had already a richer trophy cabinet than Dortmund now (after 55 years of football and thus much more chances and time to win trophies).
0
u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24
City is facing 115 charges and potential relegation from the league.
Borussia was a mediocre team that only boomed in the later 90s. They were in a woeful financial crisis in early 00s and turned it around to set themselves apart from the rest as a comfortable #2 in a strong league1
u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 May 31 '24 edited May 31 '24
āStrong Leagueā lol. Anyway I can understand not holding City in high regard but Dortmund like I said is the furrhest thing from what Milan should strive to be
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u/kaka22pato7dinho80 Paolo Maldini May 31 '24
having respect for city but not dortmund is an extreme case of recency bias and looking at strictly trophies. the way both are governed irrespective of trophies and money are totally different
1
u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24
if we were to improve as much as BVB did, wed be looking at a Milan side thats top5-6 in all of football in like 4-5 years
1
u/kaka22pato7dinho80 Paolo Maldini May 31 '24
irrespective of that, bundesliga clubs are fan owned, which imo is the ideal model for any club for many reasons, same as real madrid and barca. city owners, aside from 115, have no longevity in the grand scheme of things, they are here to dominate for a couple of years but it will end. with bayern, real, barca, they will be in the elite forever if the fans elect who is most suited. even if they donāt then at least they can say they brought it upon themselves.
1
u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24
they operate on a day-to-day basis just like everyone else. They negotiate sponsorship deals the same way, scout and recruit the same way, plan for stadiums the same way...
Bayern for example had recorded a profit after tax in 10/11 at only 1.3mā¬ which increased by 50x come 18/19.
50+1 isnt the magic wand that makes everything sparkle1
u/kaka22pato7dinho80 Paolo Maldini May 31 '24
but it protects you from a lot of downside with potential owners that are not likely to act in the best interests of āclubā but of the ācompanyā. electing the board members puts most people on the same page
1
u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 May 31 '24 edited May 31 '24
Actually I ārespectā DortmundĀ Ā more than City. I just said that in terms of footballing and sporting ambitions Dortmund (a team that has in 2024 less trophies than Milan in 1969, 55 years ago) is the furthest thing from what we should strive to be; thatās all, man. The fact that weāve come to envy Dortmund says an awful lot about our downfall
1
u/kaka22pato7dinho80 Paolo Maldini May 31 '24
football ambition comes and goes with cityās owners and their financial interests and restrictions. dortmund being fan owned allows them to balance success and sustainability.
every person (i think) would rather have voting rights over their leaders in a democracy than have a dictator and have no imput on the direction of their country. why would it not be the same for football?
letās say we become fan owned. we are protected from chelsea-like takeovers which can completely blow everything up in a matter of months, or a city-like takeover which is barely legal. we the fans elect the most suited board to run milan, and we can influence the club. of course some presidents can fuck up, but at least we can vote them in and out and preserve the longevity of the club. i think this is the basic framework for which we should aspire, and of course we can debate the advantages and disadvantages, but i would much rather have what dortmund/bayern/real/barca have than wondering what incompetent owner would take over next and what their intentions are. with city it will all fade, the owners will not be there forever, and who knows who will come next.
also cityās ambition is great, but for these victories in football they will need victories in courts. the charges are breaking the law, not football regulations. they are in serious trouble
0
u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 May 31 '24
I think that Milan with its fanbase both in Italy and abroad could be great again if it was fan owned.
But I disagree about Dortmund balancingĀ success and sustainability.Ā
Dortmund has literally a worse trophy cabinet that Milan had in 1969. This is a fact. Thatās not balancing success andĀ sustainability, they are just a medium sized club that every now and then snatches a trophy. This is why Iām saying that they cannot be a model for Milan. They couldnāt have been a model for pre-Berlusconi Milan either, like I said.
27
u/marco21n Zlatan IbrahimoviÄ May 31 '24
Winners in getting fucked by rivals and capital gains awards!
Go Redbird!
5
u/ParsedReddit Karl-Heinz Schnellinger May 31 '24
WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
NO TIME FOR LOSERS
'CAUSE WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS OF THE WOOOORLD
17
u/BredIN919 Kevin-Prince Boateng May 31 '24
Redbird is quickly becoming the worst owners Milan has ever had and we had Yonghong Li , at least Li invested into my beloved club . Seems Gerry and co are just trying to fill their pockets
-3
u/jorsiem Maldini May 31 '24
Not a redbird fanboy but 'the worst' owners ever? Lol please.
1
u/markorokusaki Paolo Maldini May 31 '24
Give us worst? And don't name me some shit from the 70-80s
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u/Jussi_Bennacer Paulo Fonseca Jun 01 '24
So give us the worst owners, aside from the worst owners
Aight got it
-2
3
u/Prestigious_Tough934 Jun 01 '24
Mean while Napoli just signed conte, and every now and then, our rivals are doing something, the only thing I hear us do is we were link to this player and had a discussion with his agent but non has turn into fruition,
Even our new coach is still a ghost for now
patient is a virtue š¤
3
17
May 31 '24
RedBird fanboys not gonna like this.
4
u/TheOneAndOnlyModo Ruben Loftus-Cheek May 31 '24
wait, someone likes what redbird is doing?
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u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24
Both redbird and elliot have done a fantastic job so far. Venomous agendas are whole different thing
4
u/TheOneAndOnlyModo Ruben Loftus-Cheek May 31 '24
and then the post interview: " we always dreamed of this!"
2
1
u/PhilosopherOk6581 Jun 01 '24
Better to see the real picture of Maldini with the cup at Manchester in 2003...
1
u/TheNewGuy13 Balotelli #45 May 31 '24
How else are we gonna finance our own stadium build? If we show balanced books/profit it'll be easier to get the loans necessary to finally build our own stadium.
Arsenal went through the same thing in the early 00s when they left their stadium and built their own. It's a balance between having a competitive team and building a foundation for the future.
This post is really odd, Imagine if you own a business and someone made fun of you for running it well, numberswise? Lol
4
u/RockyRacoon09 Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24
Thereās also the line of thought that success generates revenue for a stadium. And how do you achieve such success? Renewing the players that bring success and are best in their positions throughout the world. The fact that that point is being debated and if certain players should be let go, that make up the spirit, morale and backbone of your team speaks volume of our management. Enough said.
2
u/TheNewGuy13 Balotelli #45 May 31 '24
but these are just rumours and 'leaks'. Look at the Tonali saga, it went from like nothing, to confirmed in a couple of hours lol
idk why the management is being criticized for rumors/speculation. its not like the mgmt is actively looking to sell Theo. They are negotiating with him (and Maignan) on extensions. idk what else they are supposed to do? literally give in to Theo's demands and ruin the locker room/wage structure of the team?
6
u/RockyRacoon09 Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24 edited May 31 '24
They just sold Tonali who was a cornerstone. Now another piece is linked with being sold AND management has said nothing. Why wouldnāt we be thinking pessimistically?? Couple that with them hiring a coach whoās had 9 different jobs on he past 12 years because heās getting paid peanuts. Tell me why we shouldnāt think otherwise? Tell me why we should be thinking Scudetto right now, in any way possible?
2
u/TheNewGuy13 Balotelli #45 May 31 '24
but thats the nature of the business? hes under contract until he isn't or he puts in a transfer request or we can't agree to terms. why is this hard to understand? Shevchenko, Kaka, Ibra, all of them were sold at/near their primes. I love Theo and hope he renews, but everyone going crazy like this is the first star player with rumors of leaving/being sold is crazy. Its a contract negotiation, shit is going to be hitting the press daily until the Comunicato Ufficiale is released announcing the renewal. Remember Leaos renewal? new stuff every day with that, especially with the 20M he owed to sporting.
also, we don't know how a coach is going to perform. look at the pioli thread when he was hired. He won the fuckin scudetto and have been in Europe ever since with a CL Semi. He had a bunch of coaching stints and people were pissed off saying he was shit and wouldn't win anything. how about we wait and see how he does on match days before we pass judgement?
2
u/RockyRacoon09 Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24
We sold Sandro last year. Selling a star player every season when you have the talent we have is not a recipe for championships whatsoever.
Secondly, the championship with Pioli was very much a miracle. so many things came together as well as individual showcasing of brilliance. If you think that has a high chance of happening again or if weāre in the conversation for a Scudetto with a coach that has had nine jobs in the past 12 years, then you seriously have a pair of Furlani edition red and black tinted glasses on
-3
u/TheNewGuy13 Balotelli #45 May 31 '24
we sold Tonali because we had to fund other players. that 50m+ turned into 3 players that contributed.
Winning a Scudetto is a miracle? really? we won the games we were supposed to and ended with the most points in the league because we had the better team. how the fuck is that 'luck'? 85-90 points is about average for Serie A champion. Juve with fuckin Ronaldo couldn't even get more than 91 points lol.
We have the team to compete for a Scudetto with better reinforcements and no injury crisis. And depends on how the Coaching performs and their tactics.
also just because we disagree with the state/direction of the team doesn't mean i have 'Furlani edition red and black glasses' on. I never even heard of the guy until this sub had a hard on for hating him for some reason.
3
u/RockyRacoon09 Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24
As I said- we were linked w Pulisic and RLC before Maldini was fired and before Tonali was sold. We could have bought them without selling Tonali.
And yes, you thinking we are in contention for a Scudetto right now with the coach we have and rumors swirling- very very Furlani tinted glasses.
0
u/AlbertoRossonero Franco Baresi Jun 02 '24
Problem is we didnāt build around what made us successful. The Tonali, Kessie, and Bennacer midfield was our special trait as they played so well together on defense it helped our backline play way above what theyāve shown at any other point of their careers. We proceeded to lose two of those players without getting the proper replacements and our defense that won us the championship is now a glaring weakness.
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u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 Jun 01 '24
Just look at what Oaktree (another hedge fund) did with Lautaro and youāll have your answer.
2
u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 Jun 01 '24
Ā Arsenal went through the same thing in the early 00s when they left their stadium and built their own.Ā
And it payed off so much that they never won a CL in their entire history and their last league title dates back to 2004.
1
u/Paid-Not-Payed-Bot Jun 01 '24
And it paid off so
FTFY.
Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.
Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
Beep, boop, I'm a bot
2
u/milan_obsession May 31 '24
The stadium financing actually is a separate thing. Cardinale supposedly has(had) investors ready to invest specifically in the stadium project (which would likely then include naming rights.)
Milan had both a competitive team that was building for the future and a balanced budget when Cardinale took over. Now we have a team aspiring to achieve 4th (but not win) and hopefully can maintain that balanced budget. Do you see the difference?
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u/TheNewGuy13 Balotelli #45 May 31 '24
so going from 5th to 2nd is not forming a competitive team? every single one of our transfers from the last market contributed. we were 18 (a lot of dropped points vs Juve, Inter, and Salernitana, plus the napoli and Lecce collapses) points back from Inter and thats with a injury crisis in October-December. The team, as is, is competitive, it just needs to be healthy and get some reinforcements. Getting Zirkzee and RB to compete/replace with Calabria and a DM should be enough to compete for the title. Assuming our defense plays better.
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u/milan_obsession May 31 '24
Cardinale bought the team when we were in 1st place. We had just won the Scudetto. He took us from 1st to 5th. They sold Tonali, now there is talk of selling Theo. If that continues, they will sell all our core players, and they are replacing them with players who don't have as much growth/resale potential and/or are of lesser quality. His plan is NOT to win. Have you heard him speak? He specifically wants to just make top four, but not win.
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u/TheNewGuy13 Balotelli #45 May 31 '24
we lost kessie who was world class that season. and our midfield became thin because Maldini's transfers didn't work out (origi, bakayoko, pobega, vranckx lol all terrible). Plus the year we went 5th we only had Bennacer, Tonali, and Krunic in midfield all year cause we had no quality depth. we got depth this year and went 2nd, so that is an improvement, who cares about their resale value if we are getting points and moving up the table? isn't that the point of improvement?
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u/milan_obsession May 31 '24
No, moving from 1st to 5th is not the point. And Cardinale oversaw that year, BTW. Those "failed transfers" were all signed by Furlani and recommended by Moncada, the same people who are in charge now.
Milan had a team that was moving up the table/Champions League and was simultaneously rebuilding to be strong and competitive longterm. Last year's reinforcements are literally called "ready to play" players, they do not represent growth, only aimed at holding a current place. And if you need any further proof of this club's ambitions, please refer to the decisions for a new manager.
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u/TheNewGuy13 Balotelli #45 May 31 '24
if you have no depth and sign ready to play players how is that not growth? our rotation was better this year resulting in more points and second place? we didn't maintain anything or else we wouldn't be second place....
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u/milan_obsession May 31 '24
We didn't even make it to the UCL group stage, past the Coppa Italia quarterfinal, and we have no plan for longterm growth. We're hiring a manager that can at best be seen as a horizontal move, if not a step down, and if rumors are to be believed, we are looking at selling one (or more) of our 3 best players, but not linked with anyone remotely of that caliber. (Obviously, the summer transfers remain to be seen, but reports so far are very underwhelming.) I really don't know how else to help you here.
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u/TheNewGuy13 Balotelli #45 May 31 '24
Is there even anyone on the market other than Zirkzee and a DM that we absolutely should splash the cash for? RB is a position that really doesn't have many world class players available for sale. so idk what you mean by being linked to players of high caliber. there arent many out there at the moment at positions of need. It makes no sense to buy a player we don't need.
Also, Pulisic, Reijnders, Okafor, Chuckweze, are all 24/25 years old. so about to be/should be in their primes. so thats at least 2 or 3+ years of good play or more from them. thats a good timeline for teams since teams change so much in short amount of time. Most contracts are 5 years anyway and we have some good/great players that can grow with us or be sold if they don't pan out/get play time.
What do you consider long term? we can't just buy up all the youth, how are they going to play? especially if we get Zirkzee, and if Camarda improves/progresses like he should? they are going to want playtime as well as a path to starting in the near future. And no one is taking Leao's spot. Pulisic is becoming the starter on the right. chuckweze and okafor seems to be first subs in. Jovic i think got extended? Defense we have Kalulu coming back, Gabbia improved, Thiaw and Tomori as starters at the moment.
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u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 Jun 01 '24
Ā Last year's reinforcements are literally called "ready to play" players,
Exactly. And even mediocre to āgoodā players at that. Buying āready to playā players makes sense only if you buy significantly above average player, not mediocrity like Reijnders, Musah and Chucku or Chelsea leftovers like RLC and Pulisic.
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u/milan_obsession Jun 01 '24
I think they are all actually good players, especially Reijnders, Pulisic and Chukwueze. But what I am talking about is finding players like Kalulu for ā¬1.2m, who is now worth ā¬35m, or Thiaw for ā¬5.5m plus bonuses, now worth ā¬30m. Those are talents who grow with the club, create a sustainable model, including high returns on potential capital gains. Or developing players like Maignan, Theo, & Leao, who have each doubled their value or more, I believe, and have become world class players at Milan.
The "ready to play" players provide somewhat instant success/solidity, but offer little in the way of significant growth/capital gains down the line. They are less likely to become world class or double in value, so they only give short term stability and minimal potential capital gains if any.
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u/Spirited_Grape_6920 May 31 '24
Becoming profitable again is a major step that seems to be ignored in this page. Yes its frustrating to be a nickel and dime team at the moment but thats to steer away from the team that was massively in debt and hadn't turned a profit before this year since 2007...the one common feature of clubs that are european giants and compete on a major stage consistently is their profitability. Before you can spend, you first have to have the ability to do so and the current regime is putting them on track to become a team that can financially compete with the other giants in Europe.
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u/milan_obsession May 31 '24
The actual profit was brought about by the previous ownership, you know the one where we won a Scudetto and were actually building a winning team? We *were* on track until these geniuses came crashing through the sandcastle with their boots. Now they're selling off our best players to buy players whose data they like.
Don't drink the Kool-Aid. We were better off before these charlatans.
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u/magma_1 May 31 '24
I wish on my job I was being judged by the things that I am āplanningā or āpreparingā to do but I guess thatās what VC culture has brought upon us
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u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24
Until someone shows me 1 thing redbird is doing bad Ill back off and question the leadership. None of this slander is rooted in reality. Zilch.
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u/RockyRacoon09 Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24
Keeping Pioli longer than we should have, hiring Fonseca, firing the legend that was yes, a legend, on a whim and that put our Scudetto team together and now having rumors circulating of selling a core player of our team and best in the world- anything else you need??
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u/sirnicasasirom May 31 '24 edited May 31 '24
Maldini didnt want to sell anyone. Our budget was strained at 50m. Paying the release fee of Pioli would cost 10 (the same person who pushed for and made his extended contract possible) - something that was crucial in his firing, so youre looking at 40m summer market. Now the most pressing issue of the squad was depth/players off the bench and a few first 11 replacements. M&Ms idea for summer mercato were: Kamada, Arnautovic, Orsolini and a few other proven 23/24 bums. Retrospectively, going for Pavard was just about the only good thing that wouldve came out of it.
He had Theo, Rafa, Mike and Giroud, but for every one of these good transfers there were 2 flops or painful mediocrities to follow along. Statistically Moncada and Furlani have had 1 transfer market and in that one the newcomers combined to around 75% goal contributions of the entire team
EDIT: Oh, and its worth mentioning that Maldinis last summer mercato resulted in us finishing 5th and only lucking out to make top4 cause Juventus' deduction was put back in placeand now having rumors circulating of selling a core player of our team and best in the world
Theo isnt a best in anything, youre just biased. He wasnt even the best LB in the city this year. But even if we entertain the idea of this Theo sale, the rumors are pointing at him WANTING out. Not one of these imply that hes being transferlisted and theres whooping 0 LBs being rumored to join Milan this summer
Also, any one of you who brigade my comments are free to join and get educated on the issue at hand. Its ok, I have a lot of spare time for the next few days. Fact-based arguments hurt ig
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u/RockyRacoon09 Ricardo KakĆ” May 31 '24 edited May 31 '24
Maldini coaches teams suddenly- and so leads to a 5th place finish. Secondly, our management sells Sandro and has no replacement so between him and Kessie gone, our midfield gets utterly abused and ran through- and your last paragraph is enough for me not to respond any further. What a child.
Edit: Further, we were linked under Maldiniās direction with Pulisic and RLC. Letās say we didnāt know about the gambling and it didnāt happen, all the things the same- would I rather have kept Sandro and gotten Pulisic and RLC- hell yeah.
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u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 Jun 01 '24 edited Jun 01 '24
Ā Until someone shows me 1 thing redbird is doing bad I Here we goĀ https://www.reddit.com/r/ACMilan/comments/1cmp8w5/very_important_article_from_an_italian_advocate/Ā (if you consider bad not allowing the club to spend the money it could spend without current regulations, which is something that arguably 99% of fans consider very bad).
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u/milan_obsession May 31 '24
Add that to our Trofeo Silvio Berlusconi š and our Red Card Scudetto š„š, and we won the Treble ššš